We are still in the process of writing down our thoughts about living in a foreign country for 18 months: what we learned, how we’ve changed, and what difference the experience has made to us. While we continue to compile our thoughts, we’d like to update you on other happenings since our return to Dallas.
On Easter weekend we took a long weekend trip to Pennsylvania and Delaware. Mostly this was a trip to celebrate our fifth anniversary, but we are also in the habit of continuously planning trips and looking forward to going places so it will be a while (if ever!) before we let go of our need to travel. Easter weekend was a cold weekend almost everywhere in the U.S. There was no escaping snow, unless we had gone to, say, Miami. We heard it snowed in Dallas – quite a contrast to the weather they had at this time last year when it was already in the 100s! (This is second-hand information since we, of course, were in the Netherlands at this time last year and it was not in the 100s there.)
Despite the cold weather and snow flurries, we really enjoyed our weekend away from Dallas. Neither of us had ever been to Philadelphia, so we got to visit the National Historical Park in the center of the city (Constitution Hall, the Liberty Bell, etc.) and walked around the Arts district (where there is some excellent Indian food to be had) and Society Hill. We ventured back into Philadelphia Sunday before our flight back home to find some lunch and then discovered how horrible parking is in the city. We also discovered that finding a quick bite to eat on Easter Sunday is a challenge since so many places are closed, but we ended up having some tasty pizza (maybe it was tasty because we were starving, but we were satisfied nonetheless).
We stayed in Wilmington, Delaware in the Brandywine Valley area. Saturday was spent at Longwood Gardens, an estate established by Pierre Dupont that covers over 1000 acres. With so much late cold weather there weren’t too many flowers blooming outdoors, but the grounds were nice to hike around anyway with the lakes and fountains, and trees. There is, however, a huge conservatory overflowing with plants! It was a blessing that it took so long to go through the conservatory because it was a nice warm place to escape from the snow flurries and wind. Pierre Dupont originally built the conservatory so he could have fresh fruit in the winter. There are rooms where melons, grapes, citrus fruit, and strawberries are grown to meticulous standards so that the fruit turns out perfectly. We also enjoyed all the tulips, orchids, roses, rain forest room, cactus, and much, much more. We even got to hear a nice string quartet concert for free! The day ended with a fabulous Italian dinner at a tiny, tiny restaurant in Wilmington’s “Little Italy” called Pastabilities. It’s been showcased on the Food Network, and we really enjoyed it.
We made it to Valley Forge on Sunday morning before we had to head back to Dallas. After doing the driving tour, we hiked around the middle of the park where the roads were closed to cars. Washington and his men were camped there in the winter and we got a little taste of what it must have been like because it was extremely windy and cold when we were there. We were freezing without the snow and bundled up in our coats and gloves and sweaters. We can’t imagine what it must have been like for Washington’s army in their threadbare clothes with no indoor heating!
As an update, Erin is still looking for a job. It is difficult to find an internship position, and this will be the last that this subject is mentioned on the blog until she actually obtains a job because talking about it only increases the anxiety and depression. (All of you who have searched long and hard for a job will know exactly what she is talking about.)
Also, we have noticed that stair steps in the U.S. are very shallow after living in Europe. It feels awkward and slow taking such tiny, itty-bitty steps to go upstairs. Often we end up going up (or down) two at a time to correct the problem.
Friday, April 13, 2007
Wednesday, March 21, 2007
Toilet Paper
Erin has had to go shopping over the past week to try to stock our kitchen and obtain necessities such as paper towels, soap, and toilet paper. After only being in the country a couple weeks, she ventured to Wal-Mart while John was at work one day. Going very slowly and taking lots of deep breaths, Erin managed to get through the food section of the store rather well. Then she got to the toilet paper aisle.
Not only was a man stocking the shelves and moving things around while Erin searched the aisle, but there was toilet paper of every shape, size, thickness, and brand imaginable filling the shelves on both sides of the aisle. Erin tried hard to remember which kind she used to buy two years ago, but of course then she realized the packaging was probably different now anyway. This was no use. She actually almost had a panic attack right there in the toilet paper aisle. A few tears were definitely shed. Honestly, the toilet paper section in stores in Amsterdam is about 1/8 the size, and there are only two or three brands to choose from. Why on earth would anyone need 800 different kinds of toilet paper to choose from? I mean, come on, you wipe your behind with it! How fancy does it have to be?
When Erin first appeared in the aisle, the man stocking the shelves apologized for the inconvenience and asked if he could help. In hindsight Erin should have just asked him what kind of toilet paper she should buy! After the “almost panic attack” and tears, Erin finally just grabbed a pack and decided it wasn’t worth it to spend any more of her time in that aisle.
By the way, in the last couple years companies in the U.S. have come out with twice as many kinds of detergent and fabric softener, 10 more types of Cheerios, and we think the frozen food and chips sections of the grocery store have both doubled in size.
Not only was a man stocking the shelves and moving things around while Erin searched the aisle, but there was toilet paper of every shape, size, thickness, and brand imaginable filling the shelves on both sides of the aisle. Erin tried hard to remember which kind she used to buy two years ago, but of course then she realized the packaging was probably different now anyway. This was no use. She actually almost had a panic attack right there in the toilet paper aisle. A few tears were definitely shed. Honestly, the toilet paper section in stores in Amsterdam is about 1/8 the size, and there are only two or three brands to choose from. Why on earth would anyone need 800 different kinds of toilet paper to choose from? I mean, come on, you wipe your behind with it! How fancy does it have to be?
When Erin first appeared in the aisle, the man stocking the shelves apologized for the inconvenience and asked if he could help. In hindsight Erin should have just asked him what kind of toilet paper she should buy! After the “almost panic attack” and tears, Erin finally just grabbed a pack and decided it wasn’t worth it to spend any more of her time in that aisle.
By the way, in the last couple years companies in the U.S. have come out with twice as many kinds of detergent and fabric softener, 10 more types of Cheerios, and we think the frozen food and chips sections of the grocery store have both doubled in size.
Tuesday, March 20, 2007
20 Days
Erin has now been back in the U.S. for 20 days. Well, 19 since the entire first day of March was spent in airplanes flying over the ocean. Time has gone by fast and in slow motion all at once. Since this is now the longest stretch of time we have been away from the Netherlands, our minds and hearts are pretty convinced of the permanence of this move back to Texas.
We moved back into the house a week ago today. By now most things are put away, organized, and clean. Of course, we’re still missing a lot of clothes and other items that should be on their way over here from Amsterdam. Amazingly there is apparently no way for the moving company to track our shipment of goods across the ocean, so it could be another couple weeks or another month before it all gets here. Why, we wonder, can’t this shipment be tracked when UPS tracks absolutely everything going anywhere all over the planet? The arrival of our effects will just have to be a surprise.
John is still enjoying his job, and now that he is out of the hotel he lived in for a month and back in the house, he describes his adjustment back to life here as “seamless.” Erin’s experience is much different. Fortunately she only had to live in a hotel for 1 ½ weeks. Even though she is living in a city she has lived in before, in a house she has lived in before, something seems weird. Just a little weird. She finally decided that things are weird because almost everything in her life is different now…except the environment, which is also not exactly the same now that she views things through eyes with 18 months of experience living on a different continent. Erin will have to find a new job, a new church, and new friends. She’ll have different colleagues, different volunteer opportunities, and a different schedule than she ever did when she lived here before. She’s even driving a different car. This is all not much different than we expected; the one thing we are certain of in life is that there will always be changes.
We moved back into the house a week ago today. By now most things are put away, organized, and clean. Of course, we’re still missing a lot of clothes and other items that should be on their way over here from Amsterdam. Amazingly there is apparently no way for the moving company to track our shipment of goods across the ocean, so it could be another couple weeks or another month before it all gets here. Why, we wonder, can’t this shipment be tracked when UPS tracks absolutely everything going anywhere all over the planet? The arrival of our effects will just have to be a surprise.
John is still enjoying his job, and now that he is out of the hotel he lived in for a month and back in the house, he describes his adjustment back to life here as “seamless.” Erin’s experience is much different. Fortunately she only had to live in a hotel for 1 ½ weeks. Even though she is living in a city she has lived in before, in a house she has lived in before, something seems weird. Just a little weird. She finally decided that things are weird because almost everything in her life is different now…except the environment, which is also not exactly the same now that she views things through eyes with 18 months of experience living on a different continent. Erin will have to find a new job, a new church, and new friends. She’ll have different colleagues, different volunteer opportunities, and a different schedule than she ever did when she lived here before. She’s even driving a different car. This is all not much different than we expected; the one thing we are certain of in life is that there will always be changes.
Monday, February 26, 2007
Moving Already
It just doesn't seem that long ago since we were writing blogs about figuring out how to use the washer and dryer and dealing with waterfalls in the bathroom. Now I'm already writing about packing up to move away! Tomorrow the movers come to pack and load up our belongings. And even 18 months later, we are still dealing with frustrating household mishaps.
This week, Erin has already had adventures in defrosting the freezer, breaking the kitchen ceiling light fixture, and trying to use up the money on our chip cards with little success. And it's only Monday.
So, really the only thing left in the freezer by Saturday night were some salmon fillets (after Erin threw away almost everything else). Our freezer is only three drawers, not very big. Erin figured it couldn't take that long to defrost the thing, so she wrapped the salmon in paper and towels to insulate it as well as possible and stuck it in the fridge while she defrosted the freezer. After a couple hours, it looked as if the freezer shelves might not all defrost as fast as she had first imagined. About half the freezer had thawed in the first 30 minutes, but the last 1 1/2 shelves seemed pretty solidly frozen. The salmon would not last all night in the fridge. Since it was already 11 p.m., Erin decided to take action. A hairdryer melted the rest of the freezer shelves in about 15 minutes flat, and the salmon was saved. In fact, Erin enjoyed some of the salmon for dinner last night since, after all, there isn't much time left to enjoy it anyway!
Erin didn't really break the kitchen ceiling light fixture...it just stopped working. The kitchen light switch turns on the ceiling fixture and some lights under the cabinets. Everything was turned on and Erin left the kitchen for a while. Then Erin returned later to the kitchen to find only the lights under the cabinets on. Hmmm. It's highly unlikely that all four bulbs went out at the same time (especially since they are all bulbs that should last for 2 years). Still, Erin ventured out today to find light bulbs (easier said than done). The stores nearest our apartment were out of the specific kind she was looking for. Erin felt pretty certain that none of the bulbs were really burned out anyway, so she only went to one other place. Thankfully, they had the bulbs. A few minutes ago, Erin tested the new light bulb theory. Sure enough...no luck. The lights still don't work. This adds a positive point to moving out this week: Erin will not have to find someone to come fix the lights, be home waiting for them to come for an entire day, and e-mail back and forth to the landlord figuring out who he wants to use to fix this problem and who pays for it.
The chip cards are another story. Our bank cards have chips in them that we load with money, so we can use it like cash. Erin has had a hard time getting the cards to work in the machines she tried to use, and not many stores actually take payment by chip (at least not the stores Erin frequents). And now that she is busy organizing things and getting ready to leave, she doesn't really have all that much time to go shopping. Guess we will have the delight of dealing with the bank here in the Netherlands for some time after we are back living in the U.S.
We're sure the next few days will hold more fun and surprises. Unfortunately, after the movers come, Erin will no longer have her computer. So, sadly, this is the final post coming to you from the Netherlands. After all the moving craziness, we will have time to post more on our reflections of the last 18 months. Suffice it to say for now that our European Adventures have definitely changed us. We look forward to the next great adventure!
This week, Erin has already had adventures in defrosting the freezer, breaking the kitchen ceiling light fixture, and trying to use up the money on our chip cards with little success. And it's only Monday.
So, really the only thing left in the freezer by Saturday night were some salmon fillets (after Erin threw away almost everything else). Our freezer is only three drawers, not very big. Erin figured it couldn't take that long to defrost the thing, so she wrapped the salmon in paper and towels to insulate it as well as possible and stuck it in the fridge while she defrosted the freezer. After a couple hours, it looked as if the freezer shelves might not all defrost as fast as she had first imagined. About half the freezer had thawed in the first 30 minutes, but the last 1 1/2 shelves seemed pretty solidly frozen. The salmon would not last all night in the fridge. Since it was already 11 p.m., Erin decided to take action. A hairdryer melted the rest of the freezer shelves in about 15 minutes flat, and the salmon was saved. In fact, Erin enjoyed some of the salmon for dinner last night since, after all, there isn't much time left to enjoy it anyway!
Erin didn't really break the kitchen ceiling light fixture...it just stopped working. The kitchen light switch turns on the ceiling fixture and some lights under the cabinets. Everything was turned on and Erin left the kitchen for a while. Then Erin returned later to the kitchen to find only the lights under the cabinets on. Hmmm. It's highly unlikely that all four bulbs went out at the same time (especially since they are all bulbs that should last for 2 years). Still, Erin ventured out today to find light bulbs (easier said than done). The stores nearest our apartment were out of the specific kind she was looking for. Erin felt pretty certain that none of the bulbs were really burned out anyway, so she only went to one other place. Thankfully, they had the bulbs. A few minutes ago, Erin tested the new light bulb theory. Sure enough...no luck. The lights still don't work. This adds a positive point to moving out this week: Erin will not have to find someone to come fix the lights, be home waiting for them to come for an entire day, and e-mail back and forth to the landlord figuring out who he wants to use to fix this problem and who pays for it.
The chip cards are another story. Our bank cards have chips in them that we load with money, so we can use it like cash. Erin has had a hard time getting the cards to work in the machines she tried to use, and not many stores actually take payment by chip (at least not the stores Erin frequents). And now that she is busy organizing things and getting ready to leave, she doesn't really have all that much time to go shopping. Guess we will have the delight of dealing with the bank here in the Netherlands for some time after we are back living in the U.S.
We're sure the next few days will hold more fun and surprises. Unfortunately, after the movers come, Erin will no longer have her computer. So, sadly, this is the final post coming to you from the Netherlands. After all the moving craziness, we will have time to post more on our reflections of the last 18 months. Suffice it to say for now that our European Adventures have definitely changed us. We look forward to the next great adventure!
Wednesday, February 21, 2007
Gezellig
As Erin was riding her bike home from church last Sunday she passed mostly residential areas: apartment complexes and attached single housing units. There is something about the way the old housing with the small front gardens and large windows looks that makes Erin feel…gezellig. That’s the best word for it. It is a Dutch word that is a combination of feeling warm, comfortable, cozy, intimate, and sociable. In a country where cold, damp weather and gray skies dominate the environment, feeling gezellig, creating gezelligheid, is really important.
Erin hopes she can always remember the way it feels to live in and see others living in cozy, small spaces filled with lamplight, candles, plants and coffee cups. Especially on Sunday when Erin was on her bike, she could look in many of the houses and see small groups of people sitting together around the dining table eating brunch, drinking coffee, and reading the paper. Gezellig.
Last night Erin had her last meeting with her counseling team of volunteers from the church. There was lamplight, coffee, typical Dutch cake from Hema (chocolate!), and lively discussion in the apartment of one of the team members. When the Dutch are involved and topics like politics, faith, and religion are brought up, it’s always lively! It was gezellig. And it was a great way for Erin to wrap up some more of her job here in Amsterdam, feeling very much appreciated, though a bit sad to be leaving.
Erin hopes she can always remember the way it feels to live in and see others living in cozy, small spaces filled with lamplight, candles, plants and coffee cups. Especially on Sunday when Erin was on her bike, she could look in many of the houses and see small groups of people sitting together around the dining table eating brunch, drinking coffee, and reading the paper. Gezellig.
Last night Erin had her last meeting with her counseling team of volunteers from the church. There was lamplight, coffee, typical Dutch cake from Hema (chocolate!), and lively discussion in the apartment of one of the team members. When the Dutch are involved and topics like politics, faith, and religion are brought up, it’s always lively! It was gezellig. And it was a great way for Erin to wrap up some more of her job here in Amsterdam, feeling very much appreciated, though a bit sad to be leaving.
Sunday, February 18, 2007
Are You Packing Yet?
Erin has been asked this question at least twice a day for the last week. There are still eight whole days, plus this evening, until the movers come to get our things from the apartment in Amsterdam. And technically Erin doesn't have to pack anything except the bags she is taking with her on the airplane.
And just in case anyone is unaware of Erin's timeline for packing, we can clarify: she usually just packs late the night before an early flight or a couple hours before leaving the day of a trip. In fact, it works out well for both of us since John's packing style is pretty much the same.
Speaking of bags on the airplane...does anyone have even the least clue how many bags or what the weight limit is on a flight, first on BA from the Netherlands to the UK and then on AA from the U.K. to the U.S.? Seriously, could airlines make it any more complicated to figure out what you can take with you when you travel? Before John's flight a week or so ago we even talked to a travel agent who spent 30 minutes calling airlines and then still was not sure what to tell John about his luggage!
On a different note, Erin went with some friends to see The Good Shepherd last night. Apparently this came out some time ago in the U.S., but it is a recent release in Amsterdam. One of the previews was for Freedom Writers (probably also already out in the U.S., but still waiting for release here in the Netherlands). Basically the entire trailer revolves around talk of gangs, shootings, and racial violence. Now Erin completely understands why at least four people in the last week have mentioned "all the guns" when she tells them she is moving back to the U.S., to Dallas. Honestly, with the way cities in the U.S. are portrayed in movies, it's no wonder most Europeans say they would be afraid to live in America.
It was also educational to watch a movie about the American CIA in a room filled with Dutch people. There was a quote in the movie when the main character is asked by an Italian American what Americans "have" since other people of various cultures and ethnicities in the U.S. (Italians, African Americans, etc.) have their own music, religion, etc. The main character answers, "We have the United States of America. The rest of you people are just visiting." There was a bit of laughter, soft gasps, and some sounds of disgust...not too much reaction, but noticeable. Can't help but wonder what the reaction is among audiences in America. Erin then realized that Europeans, even the Dutch, and probably some people in every country in the world, suffer from this same prideful, prejudicial nationalism. In Holland it's a dislike of all the immigrants from Turkey, Africa, even America, who refuse to learn Dutch. Perhaps the reaction of disgust over those "prejudiced, prideful Americans" was quick and rather tame because everyone knows it is not an entirely American phenomenon to think more highly of yourself than everyone who is different from you. In fact, it is precisely this pervasive human attitude that causes so much trouble around the world.
The movie raised the issue, but no answers were given. Guess we'll have to come up with those on our own. To be fair to the movie, the tidbit of the movie discussed here was not at all the main story line or subject of the movie. And for those of you who haven't seen the movie - be warned, it is quite long. Pretty good, but long.
Oh, and if you're thinking of going to a movie in the Netherlands, you'd better just wait your turn in line to get into the theater because the ticket-taker guy will admonish you for cutting in front of people. We don't understand much Dutch, but we did understand that much when some people in front of us were being chastised for not following the rules. Always, always follow the rules in this country!
And just in case anyone is unaware of Erin's timeline for packing, we can clarify: she usually just packs late the night before an early flight or a couple hours before leaving the day of a trip. In fact, it works out well for both of us since John's packing style is pretty much the same.
Speaking of bags on the airplane...does anyone have even the least clue how many bags or what the weight limit is on a flight, first on BA from the Netherlands to the UK and then on AA from the U.K. to the U.S.? Seriously, could airlines make it any more complicated to figure out what you can take with you when you travel? Before John's flight a week or so ago we even talked to a travel agent who spent 30 minutes calling airlines and then still was not sure what to tell John about his luggage!
On a different note, Erin went with some friends to see The Good Shepherd last night. Apparently this came out some time ago in the U.S., but it is a recent release in Amsterdam. One of the previews was for Freedom Writers (probably also already out in the U.S., but still waiting for release here in the Netherlands). Basically the entire trailer revolves around talk of gangs, shootings, and racial violence. Now Erin completely understands why at least four people in the last week have mentioned "all the guns" when she tells them she is moving back to the U.S., to Dallas. Honestly, with the way cities in the U.S. are portrayed in movies, it's no wonder most Europeans say they would be afraid to live in America.
It was also educational to watch a movie about the American CIA in a room filled with Dutch people. There was a quote in the movie when the main character is asked by an Italian American what Americans "have" since other people of various cultures and ethnicities in the U.S. (Italians, African Americans, etc.) have their own music, religion, etc. The main character answers, "We have the United States of America. The rest of you people are just visiting." There was a bit of laughter, soft gasps, and some sounds of disgust...not too much reaction, but noticeable. Can't help but wonder what the reaction is among audiences in America. Erin then realized that Europeans, even the Dutch, and probably some people in every country in the world, suffer from this same prideful, prejudicial nationalism. In Holland it's a dislike of all the immigrants from Turkey, Africa, even America, who refuse to learn Dutch. Perhaps the reaction of disgust over those "prejudiced, prideful Americans" was quick and rather tame because everyone knows it is not an entirely American phenomenon to think more highly of yourself than everyone who is different from you. In fact, it is precisely this pervasive human attitude that causes so much trouble around the world.
The movie raised the issue, but no answers were given. Guess we'll have to come up with those on our own. To be fair to the movie, the tidbit of the movie discussed here was not at all the main story line or subject of the movie. And for those of you who haven't seen the movie - be warned, it is quite long. Pretty good, but long.
Oh, and if you're thinking of going to a movie in the Netherlands, you'd better just wait your turn in line to get into the theater because the ticket-taker guy will admonish you for cutting in front of people. We don't understand much Dutch, but we did understand that much when some people in front of us were being chastised for not following the rules. Always, always follow the rules in this country!
Sunday, February 11, 2007
John Has Left the Country
After taking John to the airport bright and early (or actually dark and early) Saturday morning, Erin returned home to live her last two and half weeks in Amsterdam. The fact that John has now moved back to the U.S. and is never coming back to live in our apartment in Amsterdam was quite sad. Even though Erin is here for another two and a half weeks, things have already changed. Much of regular life here in the Netherlands is over already.
John made it back to Dallas safe and sound Saturday afternoon around 2:30. He enjoyed a pleasant conversation (in English!) with his taxi driver and went over to his parents' house to pick up some clothes he had left there. The commotion started already as John pushed the wrong buttons on the house alarm, didn't shut it off in time, and had to endure the loud sirens and a call from the security company. Everything was settled quickly and easily, so it wasn't too big of a deal.
John figured going out to dinner with his Grandmother was a good idea, not only for company and a nice visit, but also to help him stay awake Saturday evening! Between dinner last night and breakfast this morning, John has already eaten Mexican food twice since his return to Texas!
When John woke up at 2 a.m. last night he decided to watch some TV. It's much safer to do this in the U.S. in the middle of the night; late night TV in Europe is rife with "adult" material. To John's dismay he was confronted with commercials every 10 minutes! In the Netherlands we got so used to watching movies uninterrupted by commercials for at least 30 or 40 minutes at a time. We may never get used to the American commercial phenonmenon. Movies for us will now always be on DVD or in the movie theater!
While John is back to a pleasant work environment on jobs where he knows what to expect, Erin is in a kind of two-week mourning period waiting to move from Amsterdam without any idea of what lies ahead in her life. Well, of course she'll live in Dallas again, but there's no certainty about a job or anything else that will fill up her time and life. It's funny how stressful life is living in a foreign country... and how sad you are when it's time to leave. And even after all the stress and difficulties, we look back over the last 18 months and think what great opportunities we experienced, what fun we had, and what great adventures we took part in! We guess it's these memories that leave the door open for us to want to do something like this again.
John made it back to Dallas safe and sound Saturday afternoon around 2:30. He enjoyed a pleasant conversation (in English!) with his taxi driver and went over to his parents' house to pick up some clothes he had left there. The commotion started already as John pushed the wrong buttons on the house alarm, didn't shut it off in time, and had to endure the loud sirens and a call from the security company. Everything was settled quickly and easily, so it wasn't too big of a deal.
John figured going out to dinner with his Grandmother was a good idea, not only for company and a nice visit, but also to help him stay awake Saturday evening! Between dinner last night and breakfast this morning, John has already eaten Mexican food twice since his return to Texas!
When John woke up at 2 a.m. last night he decided to watch some TV. It's much safer to do this in the U.S. in the middle of the night; late night TV in Europe is rife with "adult" material. To John's dismay he was confronted with commercials every 10 minutes! In the Netherlands we got so used to watching movies uninterrupted by commercials for at least 30 or 40 minutes at a time. We may never get used to the American commercial phenonmenon. Movies for us will now always be on DVD or in the movie theater!
While John is back to a pleasant work environment on jobs where he knows what to expect, Erin is in a kind of two-week mourning period waiting to move from Amsterdam without any idea of what lies ahead in her life. Well, of course she'll live in Dallas again, but there's no certainty about a job or anything else that will fill up her time and life. It's funny how stressful life is living in a foreign country... and how sad you are when it's time to leave. And even after all the stress and difficulties, we look back over the last 18 months and think what great opportunities we experienced, what fun we had, and what great adventures we took part in! We guess it's these memories that leave the door open for us to want to do something like this again.
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